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bib
註冊時間: 2007-04-21
文章: 786
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 發表於: 星期二 八月 07, 2007 7:20 pm 文章主題: ????!! ???? ?? |
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Hello Shing, kc and all ??,
????!! ???? ??
Shower Screen ?? !!!
Tune ?? grinder ???? ????? grind !!
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 2:16 am 文章主題: |
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Hello Bib,
Don't care about the groupscreen la.
Constant the dose. (Did you keep it constant? How much coffee are you using per shot?)
Constant the tamp. (I advice light tamp, you can use a bathroom scale to do this if you desire.)
Vary the grind. (Too fast the speed, adjust the grind finer. Works conversely.)
You see there is now 1 variable for you to tune only, except the uncontrollable variables.
If possible please post a video. 
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Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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nelf
註冊時間: 2006-11-21
文章: 318
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 10:36 am 文章主題: |
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might be a problem.. but not conclusive...
did the broken side of the screen flows out more water?
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 10:52 am 文章主題: |
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at most with distribution problem
but not flow speed.
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Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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bib
註冊時間: 2007-04-21
文章: 786
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 2:53 pm 文章主題: |
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| nelf 寫到: | might be a problem.. but not conclusive...
did the broken side of the screen flows out more water? |
After locking the PF to the group;
the coffee grind expands and make the hole bigger.
At that time, I think and the puck tells me that there is always channel between the basket and the coffee.
And the puck is not flat after extracted.
Thats why I say no matter how coarser and finer I grind.
It is always channeling.
See what happen after change a new screen... |
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bib
註冊時間: 2007-04-21
文章: 786
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 2:56 pm 文章主題: |
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| kckc 寫到: | at most with distribution problem
but not flow speed. |
But flow speed is part of DISTRIBUTION.
10sec or less gets 80cc speed too fast and under exacted... |
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nelf
註冊時間: 2006-11-21
文章: 318
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| 發表於: 星期三 八月 08, 2007 3:29 pm 文章主題: |
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| kckc 寫到: | at most with distribution problem
but not flow speed. |
agreed, it's a distribution problem.. I am not talking the total flow speed, but if the water in one side comes out more than the other.. it might be a problem...
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 10:11 am 文章主題: |
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| bib 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | at most with distribution problem
but not flow speed. |
But flow speed is part of DISTRIBUTION.
10sec or less gets 80cc speed too fast and under exacted... |
Don't take it too important.
Distribution is not related to flow speed, the average resistance of the puck is.
In my opinion, a 25second 30cc espresso shot in a double basket don't subject to any distribution problem.
(this is interesting, i would go to do an experiment after dinner)
For further information please scroll down.
FYI, my grouphead was about 15 degree angled towards me.
| nelf 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | at most with distribution problem
but not flow speed. |
agreed, it's a distribution problem.. I am not talking the total flow speed, but if the water in one side comes out more than the other.. it might be a problem... |
Yeah it maybe.
For us we are pulling 25sec 30cc in a double filter.
What I observed, and what being described by Shing, is that, in that resistance the distribution of the percolation process would automatically be perfected.
(ie. evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck)
Your observation sustain if a barista pulls a traditional 30sec 60cc in a double basket. 
FYI, I observed that the coffee puck expanding after about 2-3 second after beading.
The observation is in a very low dose situation so that it would be more visible.
The expansion of the puck means a much more higher flow speed if it was in low dose.
However I saw that before the expansion of the puck, the flow speed (or beading speed) is the same at any dose. (of course extreme cases like 21g or 7g in a double basket don't work)
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Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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neohk
註冊時間: 2006-09-03
文章: 1095
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 10:57 am 文章主題: |
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i wonder if i can ever understand shing's theory-.- well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
1 guess: more pressurized water coming out from that leak, more pressure on 1 side, channelling ?
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 11:17 am 文章主題: |
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| neohk 寫到: |
well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
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Sorry I didn't wrote completely. 
Evenly wetted means when water covered all the surface area of the puck.
In a correct grind, the puck is evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck.
Which means, evenly wetted, before water pressure build up.
And now substitude this into my next observation.
Coffee ground needs time to start the expansion process.
So, despite the imperfect levelness, imperfect groupscreen, imperfect tamping, imperfect distribution.
As long as the water could evenly wet the coffee puck surface before the pressure build up and before the expansion of the puck, the distribution would be perfect. (well, a correct grind is required.)
Do you know what i mean?
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Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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neohk
註冊時間: 2006-09-03
文章: 1095
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 11:35 am 文章主題: |
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| kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: |
well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
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Sorry I didn't wrote completely.
Evenly wetted means when water covered all the surface area of the puck.
In a correct grind, the puck is evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck.
Which means, evenly wetted, before water pressure build up.
And now substitude this into my next observation.
Coffee ground needs time to start the expansion process.
So, despite the imperfect levelness, imperfect groupscreen, imperfect tamping, imperfect distribution.
As long as the water could evenly wet the coffee puck surface before the pressure build up and before the expansion of the puck, the distribution would be perfect. (well, a correct grind is required.)
Do you know what i mean? |
necessary for the puck to reach to grouphead?
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 12:24 pm 文章主題: |
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| neohk 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: |
well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
|
Sorry I didn't wrote completely.
Evenly wetted means when water covered all the surface area of the puck.
In a correct grind, the puck is evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck.
Which means, evenly wetted, before water pressure build up.
And now substitude this into my next observation.
Coffee ground needs time to start the expansion process.
So, despite the imperfect levelness, imperfect groupscreen, imperfect tamping, imperfect distribution.
As long as the water could evenly wet the coffee puck surface before the pressure build up and before the expansion of the puck, the distribution would be perfect. (well, a correct grind is required.)
Do you know what i mean? |
necessary for the puck to reach to grouphead? |
Found out that it is unnecessary now, since the expansion starts a lot more later than I thought before.
_________________
Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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neohk
註冊時間: 2006-09-03
文章: 1095
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 1:52 pm 文章主題: |
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| kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: |
well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
|
Sorry I didn't wrote completely.
Evenly wetted means when water covered all the surface area of the puck.
In a correct grind, the puck is evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck.
Which means, evenly wetted, before water pressure build up.
And now substitude this into my next observation.
Coffee ground needs time to start the expansion process.
So, despite the imperfect levelness, imperfect groupscreen, imperfect tamping, imperfect distribution.
As long as the water could evenly wet the coffee puck surface before the pressure build up and before the expansion of the puck, the distribution would be perfect. (well, a correct grind is required.)
Do you know what i mean? |
necessary for the puck to reach to grouphead? |
Found out that it is unnecessary now, since the expansion starts a lot more later than I thought before. |
this is wt i think: we still have to try out best to distribute evenly, tamp correctly... ok, based on your theory it's ok just to maintain a nice expansion.in real life, that takes pretty much luck to achieve with wrong distribution right?
btw, a more thing about the theory, any differences for different finenesses of coffee grounds?
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kckc
註冊時間: 2006-03-15
文章: 1918
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 3:16 pm 文章主題: |
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| neohk 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: | | kckc 寫到: | | neohk 寫到: |
well, if the resistance is perfect, then what caused channelling ?
|
Sorry I didn't wrote completely.
Evenly wetted means when water covered all the surface area of the puck.
In a correct grind, the puck is evenly wetted before water can go through the coffee puck.
Which means, evenly wetted, before water pressure build up.
And now substitude this into my next observation.
Coffee ground needs time to start the expansion process.
So, despite the imperfect levelness, imperfect groupscreen, imperfect tamping, imperfect distribution.
As long as the water could evenly wet the coffee puck surface before the pressure build up and before the expansion of the puck, the distribution would be perfect. (well, a correct grind is required.)
Do you know what i mean? |
necessary for the puck to reach to grouphead? |
Found out that it is unnecessary now, since the expansion starts a lot more later than I thought before. |
this is wt i think: we still have to try out best to distribute evenly, tamp correctly... ok, based on your theory it's ok just to maintain a nice expansion.in real life, that takes pretty much luck to achieve with wrong distribution right?
btw, a more thing about the theory, any differences for different finenesses of coffee grounds? |
Yes you are right, but you know, physical distribution action is not as important as most people think.
However, what I think, is that to set the grind correctly is much more important.
To pull a sink shot with correct grind correct dose is very difficult.
However to pull a shot which the grinder was set slightly coarser or finer would highlight any distribution defects! 
_________________
Eureka Mignon Hahaha |
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neohk
註冊時間: 2006-09-03
文章: 1095
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| 發表於: 星期四 八月 09, 2007 4:54 pm 文章主題: |
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why the optimal fineness allowed the puck to get wet before any espresso leaves the group head. i start to be confusing at the moment 
imo, if the distribution is not satisfactory, no matter wt setting for the grinder, channelling will occur.
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